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Category Archives: Test- Natural yeast that started with white flour and water for non sour bread

* Test 2* Natural yeast that started with semolina flour and water for non sour bread

2 weeks ago, I got a Japanese bread baking book for making non sour bread with flour and water.  The Aurthur Hiroko Hayashi insisted that the starter is different from sourdough because it is not sour, and she also mentioned that sourdough must be started with rye flour and water. She called her starter ” Koubo- Pan- shu”-(Natural yeast-Bread-Culture), or 老麺 in Chinese. Other Japanese say ” Flour yeast”  or ” Bread culture”   I will say “ Old dough=Pre-Ferments  ” in English.  However, I think that if the bread has sour tastes ( lactic acid  or acetic acid) it would be sourdough.

I really like her way not to discard her dough except the dough dies. She never discards any of them that is like my raisin yeast water.

* Note: Unfortunately, She passed away in 2010. She was still 40’s. I am very fond of her books. ( I have other kind of her books to make miso, soy sauce, vinegar etc..)

I tried her method once, but the starter came out  little sour like the first one that I tried,but I am still keep her dough in the refrigerator for a chance that I may be able to make non sour bread because they are still young.  It takes a month until ready to bake bread according to Hiroko Hayashi.  I am still skeptical.. Is it really possible to make non sour bread with flour and water? I saw a Japanese home baker who tried her method made non sour bread.  I checked what kind white flour she used.   The flour contains malted rice, which is kind of sake yeast water.  I would understand why she was able to make non sour bread with the flour and water.  But, How about Hiroko Hayashi?

When I built the yeast with white flour and water, the yeast was weaker than I expected. I realized that I should use flour that contain more enzyme to make strong yeast.  Hiroko Hayashi suggested to use semolina flour or whole wheat to start with. So I tried semolina flour to make the yeast using her method with my technique.

Day1

  • 12g semolina flour
  • 6g filtered water

I reformed the dough into a ball 3 times at 4 hours interval to activate the dough.

After mixing the ingredients.

After 3rd reformed the dough. Getting stickier.. No rise.

Day2

  • 15g starter ( The total weight of the Day1 dough)
  • 15g semolina flour
  • 7g filtered water ( Added water until I get the texture of my ear lobe)

I reformed the dough into a ball 3 times at 4hours intervals.

After mixing the ingredients

After 3rd reformed the dough.   No rise.

Day3–  Discarded the surface that was dry in 24 hours.

  • 15g starter ( The total weight of the Day2 dough)
  • 15g semolina flour
  • 7g filtered water ( Added water until I get the texture of my ear lobe)

No more reforming the dough.

The surface was dry.  This is a good sign of the first fermentation.

It rose doubled in volume in 11 hours. so….

I took the dried surface again and  fed the dough like this..

  • 30g starter ( The total weight of the dough)
  • 30g King Arthur all purpose flour
  • 18g filtered water( Added water until I get the texture of my ear lobe)

Mixed them all and put in a zip-lock to store in the refrigerator ( 9℃– the place that I keep butter)….. I don’t close the zip-lock for the dough, which needs to breath.

* Using a zip-lock ( or plastic bag) is Hiroko Hayashi’s way.  I prefer her way when I keep the dough in the refrigerator for a long term. The dough may have excess oxygen when it is in a container, which may be oxidized. I can’t get a right size container for the dough every time.

The place is 3 ℃ warmer than the other places.

Day4/ Day5

  • Reformed the dough once a day.

Day5  Before reforming the dough into a ball.

Day6

Fed the dough…

  • 69g starter ( The total weight of the Day5 dough)
  • 69g King Arthur all purpose flour
  • 36g filtered water ( Added water until I get the texture of my ear lobe)

Before feeding

After feeding.

Day7.8

  • Reformed the dough into a ball once a day.

Day7  Before reforming the dough: It is fermenting!

Day8  Before reforming the dough.It is fermenting more..

Day9 

I fed the dough… ( the plan was 10th day, but it fermented faster than I expected)  In the same time, I had a question about the dough how much the dough rose exactly when I keep the dough in the zip-lock… So I divided the dough in a half to test… One is in a zip-lock, the other one is in a container.

  • 73g starter each ( The total weight of the Day8 dough)
  • 73g King Arthur all purpose flour
  • 36g filtered water ( Added water until I get the texture of my ear lobe)

before feeding

After feeding

Day10   It rose  more than doubled in 24 hours when I checked the dough in the container.   Now I can see how much the dough rose in the zip-lock. The taste of the starter is not sour, which is good news.

In the evening, I made the dough to bake  the Japanese sandwich loaf next day.

  • Levain ( I already got from the dough)– Should be 255g.. but I made a mistake.. I used only 196g

Final dough:

  • 301g  King Arthur bread flour
  • 20g egg yolk
  • 38g  whole milk ( I didn’t have heavy whipping cream)
  • 134g water ( The original was 144g .. I didn’t know why I changed it.)
  • 29g butter
  • 13g sugar
  • 7.2g salt

How I made the dough

  1. Knead the dough with 5 minutes autolyze.
  2. Bulk fermentation 76F   10.5 hours.
  3. Preshape  and 30 minutes bench time.
  4. Shape
  5. Final proof   2 hours.
  6. Bake ( Cold oven)

Bulk fermentation: In 10.5 hours.

Final proof:  before baking. 2 hours later..   I don’t wait any longer not to have sour tastes.

It rose over 180% in the oven.

The crumb is fluff and soft.

The taste:  Very close to non sour bread. When I had some of them when it was still warm, it was very slightly sour. I had it again when it is cooled, the taste was no sour.  I also tasted the semolina and white flour that I used directly.

The taste of the loaf in 24 hours:  It was little sour.  According to Hiroko Hayashi, I will wait another 20 days until I make the sandwich loaf to compare.

Next day:

I made a champagne loaf with the starter using Hiroko Hayashi’s formula, but I added more rye flour to it.

  • 200g starter ( Old dough=Pre-Ferments)
  • 30g  dark rye flour
  • 35g  King Arthur whole wheat flour
  • 335g King Arthur bread flour
  • 287g water
  • 8g salt
  1. Mixed all the ingredients except the salt.
  2. Autolyze for 15 minutes
  3. Added the salt and kneaded until  the dough got gassy. ( 10 -15 minutes)
  4. Bulk fermentation  6.5 hours  — Stretch and fold on the work bench at the first 45 minutes.
  5. Preshape
  6. Bench time 30 minutes.
  7. Proof  1 hour at the room temperature.
  8. Retard for 12 hours  at 6 ℃.
  9. Final proof for 1.5 hours at the room temperature.
  10. Bake 

The day that I baked-The taste : little keen Sour but pleasant  and sweet. It is little too sour for me.The crumb : Soft and fluff . I really like the texture.

The next day–  The taste: little keen sour but very pleasant and less sweet than yesterday, which mean the flavor combined well. The crumb: Softer but chewer than the sourdough with raisin yeast water.

By the way, I really like this natural yeast that started with flour and water as much as I like raisin yeast water, that are used very simple ingredients.   I must say, “Simple is the best.”

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Koubo by Akiko is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.

 

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*Test* Natural yeast that started with white flour and water

Now I am intrigued by simple starter, which is made by white flour and water only.  I also want to make good bread without adding instant yeast at the final dough. But, my main goal is to make non sour sandwich bread with the simplest starter. The taste will be like flour wine when I bite off, which is my dream.

I thought that it will be called ” Sourdough”, but this starter is different when I looked up for sourdough.  I am trying to not have or taste lactic acid or any acetic but Saccharomyces cerevisiae in the dough like yeast water. In Japan, they call the starter ” Flour yeast” ” Bread culture”  or ” 老麺” in Chinese.    I don’t know if I can make it or nor, but I will try until I am a successful.

Day 1

  • 40g  King Arthur all purpose flour
  • 40g  King Arthur bread flour
  • 40g filtered water

* Mix it thoroughly and make into a ball shape, then put in the container  to ferment for 24 hours at the room temperature at 82F.   I reformed 2 times a day to activate the dough.    

Day2

  • 40g King Arthur all  purpose flour
  • 40g King Arthur bread flour
  • 40g filtered water

* Adding the same amount of flour and water into the Day1 dough. Fermented at 82F for 24 hours. I reformed the dough into a ball 2 times a day to activate the dough.  The dough was very sticky. The taste was like sticky yogurt.

Day3

  • Repeat ” Day2″. but ,No more reforming the dough into a ball.

            Very very sticky….

After feeding .

Day4

  • 80g Starter
  • 40g King Arthur all purpose flour
  • 40g King Arthur bread flour
  • 50g filtered water

* In the morning( 24 hours later ) the dough rose more than doubled in volume,I threw some starter on the surface because it was dried.  The taste was mild sour ( lactic acid) and sweet.

I refreshed the starter…

At 3:40pm ( 7 hours later)  It rose doubled in volume.  the picture was taken at 2 pm.

7 hours later  —-
I made 3 different ways to keep the starters


Test  No.1  : Put the dough in a small zip lock  and store it in the refrigerator for a week ,then  A) Feed “Day 4” ingredients and store it back in the refrigerator for a week.  Repeat A) one more time, and I will bake bread with this sourdough.

Before refrigerating…

7 days later.  the dough has a mild sour taste, and smelled white wine…

80g starter and … ( Very sticky..)

Adding 80g King Arthur all purpose flour and 50g water.. Mix and formed into a ball..

Put int back in the refrigerator and sleep there for 7 days.

Another 7 days later.it rose doubled.

The surface is was like this. It was a refreshing flavor with sweet and very mild lactic acid ( mild sour)

I refreshed the one with 80g starter/80g King Arthur all purpose flour/50g water and keep it in the refrigerator for 6 days, then refresh once before baking.

  ***************************   Another 7 days later ****************************************

It rose more than doubled in the refrigerator.  I made a sandwich loaf without refreshing.  So, I used this cold dough as levain. Because it gets lactic/ acetic acid as soon as I keep this dough at room temperature.

It rose doubled in 9 hours. I usually wait until any dough rise close to tripled but I didn’t wait this time. I knew the yeast is too young for that yet.

After molding…

Before baking  ( Proof  2 hours)  I didn’t want to have sour flavors for this bread, so I didn’t ferment the dough anymore.

I rose 150% over in the oven….

This bread is significantly sweeter and less sour compare to the TEST NO.3.  But I tasted it a very pinch of mild sour. The crumb was soft and fluff, which is a good sign.

Test  No.2 :

Baking bread( 5th day sourdough)

  • 15g starter
  • 15g King Arthur all purpose flour
  • 7g filtered water

*  I refreshed it↑ and it rose doubled in 6 hours.

So, I made levain for Rustic bread  with 5th day sourdough starter.  I thought that the starter is too young to bake bread, so I added 0.3% instant yeast as to 100% flour including preferment flour. I will post the formula soon..

Surprisingly,it only took 3 hours for the bulk fermentation.  Final proof: 30 minutes at 76F, 3 hours at 50F and 30 minutes at 68F.( For my schedule….I had to go out for some errands…)

The taste of crumb was full of sweetness from the flour. It had a mild sour taste. I really like this bread. I wish this bread were made without instant yeast….

Test  No.3   Keep the starter in the refrigerator for a week after refreshing:

I kept 50g starter from the original one, then mixed all of  the ingredients below.

  • 50g starter
  • 50g King Arthur all purpose flour
  • 36g filtered water

                                                 It rose doubled in volume in 6 hours.

So, I refreshed again with the ingredients below.  I immediately put it in the refrigerator.

  • 80g starter
  • 80g King Arthur all purpose flour
  • 50g filtered water

After mixing…

4 days later

6 days later… I am going to prepare for making bread tomorrow..so..

I refreshed.  80g starter/80g King Arthur all purpose flour/ 50g filtered water in the morning.

12 hours later. It rose tripled in bulk.

I made levain for a sandwich loaf at night, and also….

I refreshed it with 80g starter/80g King Arthur all purpose flour/50g water , then refrigerate it to keep the starter.

I will refresh in 6 days and bake bread again…

Here is the sandwich loaf.

It took 8 hours and 20 minutes at the bulk fermentation/2 hours and 45 minutes at the final proof.

It is different from all of the sourdough that started with fruit juice and raisin yeast water.  I tasted pleasant lactic sour and slightly smells white wine like..   I wish I could make non sour bread with this sourdough starter… The taste is more like flour wine,not lactic sour….

****9 days later*****

with malt powder

I kept  the starter in the refrigerator for 6 days and refreshed once before baking… until I fed 1g malt powder, 80g starter, 80g King Arthur all purpose flour, 60g filtered water for refreshing before making levain.  It went all wrong… I thought the starter will be stronger and sweeter… it rose 150% in 8 hours.  but the taste was horrible.   I tasted some weird bitter flavors to it. So, I threw it away.

Creative Commons License
Koubo by Akiko is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.

 

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